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Talk:Senju Clan
New members Add Kawarama, Senju Father and Itama on the infobox. (talk) 13:17, February 27, 2013 (UTC) :They're there, you probably have an old version of the page in your cache. Omnibender - Talk - 15:41, March 16, 2013 (UTC) ::Click on Refresh button from the dropdown menu.~ UltimateSupreme 16:01, March 16, 2013 (UTC) Senju Clan Symbol Ok, I think I may have found what the Senju Clan's symbol is based off of. I think it's a Vajrahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vajra. (the Wikipedia page doesn't really show it, so here's another link that shows it a bit better http://www.narahaku.go.jp/english/collection/d-1406-0-1.html) What do you guys think? --Soren7550 (talk) 16:34, March 17, 2013 (UTC) :It does have a similarity. I'll write up something. Omnibender - Talk - 16:49, March 17, 2013 (UTC) Wood release is very rare among the clan Ok, I believe that Wood Release may be their Kekkei genkai but not all Senju display the release, so far Hashirama is the only known Senju to display this Kekkei genkai. Because of the Kekkei genkai only occurring in one known Shinobi, it would be safe to infer that this Kekkei genkai is an autosomal recessive trait, meaning it is a rare occurring trait. I did not ever state that it is not their Kekkei genkai, I am only saying that it is autosomal dominant, meaning it is a very rare occurring trait like the blue people of Kentucky. Allow me to edit it and put my trivia thing back so we can allow this wiki to be as accurate as possible. Also my Travia thing is supported by the fact that Tsunada and Tobimaru lacks the wood release.Csfranklin (talk) 22:26, March 21, 2013 (UTC) Hashirama was merely the only one to awaken it. There's no need to speculate on why or how. Omnibender - Talk - 22:33, March 21, 2013 (UTC) If it was as simple as awakening it then Tsunada would've done so when she was literally cut in half. You see, Autsomal recessive wouldn't quite mean only Hiroshima carries the bloodline but it would mean he would be the only one that displays the ability. Kekkei Genkai are inherited their blood and what I am telling you is the science if understanding and identifying genes that are passed down by parents, because if this is a Kekkei genkai it would've been passed down by blood which supports my statement, the wood release is a Kekkei genkai and in their blood but not all display this technique, some just carry it in their genes unknowlingly. Csfranklin (talk) 22:45, March 21, 2013 (UTC) Tobimaru is a hawk, not a Senju Clan member--Elveonora (talk) 22:35, March 21, 2013 (UTC) I meant Tobirama...Csfranklin (talk) 22:47, March 21, 2013 (UTC) You aren't telling us anything we didn't know--Elveonora (talk) 23:03, March 21, 2013 (UTC) Apparently you hadn't known because you removed my trivia question.Csfranklin (talk) 23:08, March 21, 2013 (UTC) As someone who has had a discipline of genetics at college-level, I'm more aware than how genetics work than the average person, and I can tell you that there's no point in saying why no other Senju has displayed it, as there could be any number of reasons. Just because something is genetic, it doesn't mean it's automatically inheritable in one way or another. You're looking at genotype only, and there's a whole other layer called epigenetics, not to mention phenotypes. All things that become inheritable begin somewhere. Hashirama was merely the first one to have a genetic sequence allowing for that combination, and none of his descendants inherited it. Simple as that. Omnibender - Talk - 00:10, March 22, 2013 (UTC) You realize Phenotypes are part of Genotypes which makes it up... Like I've been saying, the genotype is Autosomal recessive because the PHENOTYPES are inherited that way. What country are you in? That's only Highschool level where in America. epigenetics is the study of changes in phenotype caused by mechanisms other than changes in the underlying DNA sequence, some of which are heritable. This further supports what I previously typed.Csfranklin (talk) 00:58, March 22, 2013 (UTC) Phenotype is, in its plainest definition, the set of the individual's genotype added to environmental aspects of which act and interact with it. You really want me to discuss epigenetic changes like in-utero hormonal shifts increasing the translational output of genes, or how differences in acetylation and methylation increases affinity to transcription factors? My point is, it doesn't matter why Hashirama is the only one to have Wood Release, it only matters that he is. Omnibender - Talk - 02:09, March 22, 2013 (UTC) Lol, I would like to bring to your attention that you're very wrong, Phenotypes are what makes up a genotype, two of which makes a complete genotype. My point is that you're wrong and won't accept reason, you never let anyone make changes to the wiki because you have nothing better to do then try to correct people when yourself are wrong.Accept your wrongness. Csfranklin (talk) 23:28, March 22, 2013 (UTC) Can you two please respect that some of us in here are mortals as well? As dumb as I feel, I have no idea what the two of you are arguing about.--Elveonora (talk) 12:19, March 23, 2013 (UTC) :Know that you are not alone in this Elveonora. Any way, I don't think this is something that needs to be mentioned in the article. The way I understand the Senju worked, you could have every tenth person wielding a kekkei genkai that was unique to them, because they were the clan of a thousand skills. That doesn't make the ability any less Senju related/owned. Apart from that I feel like these are the real-world things that will just fly over people's heads. Granted it's a good explanation, but I doubt even Kishimoto was thinking along these lines at all. The furthest he's gone is calling Wood Release a hidenjutsu.--Cerez365™ (talk) 12:45, March 23, 2013 (UTC) Sorry Elveonora... And Cerez, if it was just a Hiden technique then it would've have been passed on to the clones.Csfranklin (talk) 15:35, March 23, 2013 (UTC) :Drop the "I'm right, everyone else is wrong" attitude. It is a unique technique to Hashirama, nobody else in his clan has ever shown any signs of having it. We don't care about reality and what is meant to happen since this is just a fictional series and Kishi-sensei decides the storyline. Simply put, Kishi has decided that only Hashirama is to have the Wood Release in his clan, with others getting it from DNA injections, so we can't go against what he's decided and put speculation in the article. --Speysider Talk Page | My Image Uploads | Tabber Code | Channel 15:42, March 23, 2013 (UTC) So, we should remove the Kekkei genkai from the clan's page because that is merely speculation. Yamato and the Zetsu clones all use Wood Release and have the exact same DNA as him, meaning it's his DNA that is unique and he had a rare Kekkei genkai.Csfranklin (talk) 15:57, March 23, 2013 (UTC) If you look up anywhere, it'll say that phenotype is the product of the genotype, the environment, and the genotype-environment interactions. And for the last time, Wood Release is only listed as their kekkei genkai because Wood Release became highly associated with the clan, so much they became known as "Senju Clan of the Forest". If any other clan became highly associated with a kekkei genkai, despite only one person having it, said kekkei genkai would be listed in the clan's page as well.Omnibender - Talk - 16:13, March 23, 2013 (UTC) :I'm guessing you mean wouldn't in which case, you might be wrong. There are a couple cases where the hidenjutsu possessed by some may be genetic-based. Any way, that is not what I meant. Within the Senju, because of the fact that they were not a typical clan i.e. one skill common amongst all members you could've had ten different kekkei genkai unique to different people rather than being common. So that means people could've had X Release, Y Release, Z Release, amongst other non-nature transformation based abilities which would all be listed as kekkei genkai of the clan. As I said before, you've gone outside the realm of relevant out-of-world trivia, to something that will only confuse of disinterest people, so I don't think it's necessary to mention at all.--Cerez365™ (talk) 16:20, March 23, 2013 (UTC) Wood Release is a mutation unique to Hashirama, and since he was a member of the Senju Clan, it's being listed as their KKG. Kimimaro was also the only one with creepy bones, yet it's listed as Kaguya KKG, that's the only and simplified reason, no genetics to justify or disprove it are needed.--Elveonora (talk) 20:27, March 23, 2013 (UTC) Omibender idk where you learnt that at but you're clearly wrong, the genotype is back up of two Phenotypes and anything else you would say is completely wrong. You could looked it up anywhere and you will discover that the genotype is made up of two phenotype. Also, it was stated that most of the Kaguya clan did have it and not just Kimimaro. Even the Kaguya clan Kekkei genkai is genetics since it is inherited through the blood, remember Kekkei genkai is translated to "a technique limited to inheritance by blood" or "blood limit", both of which involve blood. Did you know that in a few decades we may be able to replicate the Kaguya clan Kekkei genkai with rl people? We've already had a dog's head live without a body for a long time until the mechine got turned off. We even cloned sheep and body parts so Zetsu clones is already almost possible.Csfranklin (talk) 04:21, March 24, 2013 (UTC) :You should separate your hobbies involving real-life laws and chemistry from those of fiction.--Elveonora (talk) 12:16, March 24, 2013 (UTC) No Csfranklin, you're wrong. Either you're confusing phenotype for something else, or you were taught it wrong. Here are results that show up in the three first pages of a Google search for "phenotype", all agreeing with me, and disagreeing with you: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11. Omnibender - Talk - 15:12, March 25, 2013 (UTC) Come on Omni, it's irrelevant in this case who is right/wrong, no need to show off who is the wiser :) the page is being protected anyway, right? So no more adding of that trivia--Elveonora (talk) 18:10, March 25, 2013 (UTC) The main argument was always the moniker the clan got out of it, we would keep it regardless, but being told off by someone using a simple concept he or she clearly does not grasp and that I do, that is beyond me. Go troll someone else. Omnibender - Talk - 18:38, March 25, 2013 (UTC) Omni you're such an idiot, all your links just prove you wrong. Unless you cannot understand English or just a plan retard you should know that the links provide the information that prove me right and you wrong. Phenotypes are what makes the Genotypes. Idiot, go back to Highschool.Csfranklin (talk) 14:12, March 26, 2013 (UTC) :That'll do Csfranklin, that'll do. It's apparent that despite the fact that we've tried to even explain to you in-universe why Wood Release would be listed, your intelligence that reign far superior to ours won't allow you to comprehend the workings of our less developed brains.--Cerez365™ (talk) 14:18, March 26, 2013 (UTC)